Noob Q.

[Toastie]

Hey guys,

I'm fairly new to the area and am interested getting into airsoft. I'm 28/m/Canada going to school at Andrews University in Berrien Springs, MI. I've played plenty of paintball, owned my own equipment at one time, but eventually got tired of the cost and awkwardness of the guns. I've used entry level airsoft guns around the dorm in University but never got into it much. Do you guys go out often? Is there a chance you guys would be interested in a noob coming out a few times?

I'd also needs some recommendation on a gun. I like the m4 models, but I notice they range in price and quality. What would you recommend as a minimum for a noob?


Thanks,
Tyler



[e-mail]

[EasyCheez]

Absolutely, we'd love to get a noob out to show you the ropes. We usually play, minimum, once a month, usually twice. This spring/summer, though, we'll probably be out a lot more frequently.

As far as guns go, honestly, I'd put your money away, save it, and come to a skirmish with us. You'll learn more about guns from running around with us then you would from surfing the internet. It's usually really hard to find out what gun suits you best until you actually hold and fire a few. Since our skirmishes usually involve large amounts of drills/practice you won't miss out on a ton of action by not bringing a gun. Plus, when it comes time for us to play a few rounds, most of us have 3 AEGs of more so you can definitely borrow one).

As far as manufacturer, you're really going to find a wide range of opinions. I am a Marui-whore so I buy Tokyo Marui 100% of the time. They're basically like the Honda of airsoft. Not flashy, they usually don't come full metal, they usually need to be upgraded, but they are probably the most reliable, user-friendly manufacturers. Some manufacturers like KWA, VFC, or G&G make more expensive guns but you have to be like Jinx and know how to crack open your gearbox and keep it running in perfect condition.

Another suggestion would be what a lot of guys are doing now... Buy an Echo1 or a reliable "clone" gun and then save your cash. When the cheaper internals in the clone start to give out replace them with better internals. After a few break-downs your clone will become a solid gun.

Still, as a Marui-whore, I'm biased. Let's see what some of our other members have to say on the subject.

... Buy Tokyo Marui.

[Toastie]

Sweet! That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm in Canada now for the holidays but when I get back I'll take you up on your offer. I have been noticing in my time-consuming attempt to search online that the name Tokyo Marui seems to pop up a lot. And as you've mentioned it here I'm assuming it's for a good reason.

As for skirmishes for a noob like me, what would I have to wear? I don't have any special gear yet. And as for a gun, it would be nice to try a few. I'd be willing of course to pay someone, like a 'rental fee' or whatever you wanna call it.

I think I'll go with your advice and not purchase something right away, however I've been looking at something to start. There's a clone on ebay right now, it a JG M4A1 for $150. Woudl that be a nice starter? Or are you thinking a Walmart to start for $50 and then see what I like?

The ebay item 'was' - cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=390017321061

Can you let me know if that seems like an ok deal?


Thanks !


T.

[psyus]

If you are looking to get a clone, I have a JG for sale and gear as well.
rrairsoft.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=weapons&action=display&thread=313&page=1

[Toastie]

I'm possibly interested. Although, being a noob, I have no idea what half of the items listed are. It's the same gun as listed on ebay for $150. Also I'm trying to learn about battery power, battery life, and fps. I notice that some guns shoot around 300fps and some around 400fps. Obviously the 400fps is what I prefer. Does this gun do that? Also, does it come with a battery and how long does it last?

[sandman]

sweet im not the noob anymore!!! lol
i like the JG guns myself and im gonna be buying one with my
Christmas money here soom lol
the 2008 upgraded version JG M4 S-System is shooting 410-420 fps with 0.2gbb, give or take
*the 2008 upgrade means its the newest version of their guns they have released
with better internals

[psyus]

400 fps is the limit on automatic weapons at most events in the US. The ebay gun is 2009 which is shooting 450 fps. The 2008 is shooting 420 fps. The one I am selling is 2007.5 and shooting 350 fps. Airsoft guns are upgrade magnets. JG thinks that if they pre upgrade the new models they will sell more to nubs, prob. true. Just remember if you buy a JG thats shooting 400 fps the internals are only a matter of time before they are dust. A KWA can handle only about 420 fps stock internally, and they are often regarded as the best internals. JG = $150 KWA = $350 So... there is my .02

[EasyCheez]

Psyus is dead-on the money. Marui's guns are shipped with the lowest factory fps because, the theory is, that Marui guns are begging to be upgraded and they want everyone to be free to upgrade with the gear they want. Plus, if your internals fail, you can run your stock internals until you get replacement parts.

[Toastie]

I must say, I'm loving the quick responses! Although, now that I've surfing and thinking for the past few days trying to get up to date, I still have many Q's. If anyone can answer one or a couple following Q's that would be super.

1.) Is it possible to lower the fps on a gun (easily) that shoots over 400fps?

2.) Is it possible to raise the fps on a gun without getting new internals? (If so how?)

3.) How much do new internals cost and what do they improve on your gun?

4.) How do the batteries work, are they like paintball where it slowly decreases in fps until it's out or what?

5.) How do I understand batteries? What is the difference between 8.4V and 9.6V (practically), and 600mah-3800mah? I'm guessing that higher is always better? If so, what is necessary and what is overkill? How long do they last?, should I get 2?

6.) Are you planning any skirmishes in January?


Thanks a bunch!!

T.

[EasyCheez]

1.) Is it possible to lower the fps on a gun (easily) that shoots over 400fps? Yes, essentially all you have to do is replace the spring with a weaker spring, that'll drop the fps

2.) Is it possible to raise the fps on a gun without getting new internals? (If so how?) As above, higher fps means a stronger spring. When you upgrade a spring, however, you'll need to buy additional equipment to make sure your gun doesn't 'reject' the new tranplant by seizing up. Spring guide, piston, etc.

3.) How much do new internals cost and what do they improve on your gun? Cost-wise, dunno, I spent about $200 total on my gun but that includes inner barrel and I over-killed as far as upgrade parts go. Some parts will increase ROF, some increase longevity, Jinx can chime in with specifics.

4.) How do the batteries work, are they like paintball where it slowly decreases in fps until it's out or what? Eh, to an extent. The battery should always fire the same fps until the very end, but the drop-off can be significant. Like, one minute it shoots, the next it takes a second to cycle a single BB and on the next pull you're empty.

5.) How do I understand batteries? What is the difference between 8.4V and 9.6V (practically), and 600mah-3800mah? I'm guessing that higher is always better? If so, what is necessary and what is overkill? How long do they last?, should I get 2? higher voltage = faster ROF. If you have upgrades you'll probably need a 9.6 because it requires more voltage to turn everything internally. The mah figure means milliamp hours, it just means how long it lasts. A 600mah battery might last 300-500 rounds at most, while a 3300mah should last you all day. I run 3300mah batteries and I have 3. One to use, one as a back-up, and one in case one of the two screws up on me. I also have a few other batteries but I don't use them. My theory is that you should always have 1 battery you don't use. So, if you go to a skirmish and you have 3 batteries and at the end of the day that third battery is in your AEG it means you should order a 4th. The AEG you get will determine your needs. If it takes a large battery then two ought to more then do it for you. If it's a 600mah... Order a couple.

6.) Are you planning any skirmishes in January? WE aren't, or at least we haven't yet. Usually, for us, April starts the RR skirmish period. Blast camp has winter games, we'll post info on the forums when it comes up.

[sandman]

Voltage (V): The most common battery voltages in airsoft are 8.4V (7-cell) and 9.6V (8-cell). The voltage of a battery can be figured by simply counting the number of cells and multiplying by 1.2. (As most of the cells used in airsoft are 1.2V rechargable cells.) This is simply a power rating, how big of a current your battery will provide. If you increase the resistance of your gearbox onto the motor, you may need to increase the voltage of your battery to be able to operate it.

milliampere-hour (mAh): I'm just gonna steal this from wikipedia, cause it's pretty much perfect. It's for ampere-hour (Ah) but it's applied the same way, just at a different scale.

Quote:
An ampere-hour (abbreviated as Ah) is a unit of electric charge. It is a common measurement of how long a battery will last (or in the case of a rechargeable battery, how long it will last when fully charged). The ampere is the SI unit of electric current. One ampere-hour is equal to 3,600 coulombs (ampere-seconds), and indicates the amount of electric charge that passes either terminal of the battery when it provides one ampere of current flow for one hour.

However, in reality, the available capacity of a battery depends on the rate at which it is discharged. If a battery is discharged at a relatively high rate, the available capacity will be lower than expected. Therefore, a battery rated at 100 Ah will deliver 20 A over 5 hours, but if it is instead discharged at 50 A (coulombs per second), it will run out of charge before the theoretically expected 2 hours. For this reason, a battery capacity rating is always related to an expected discharge time, which is typically 5 or 20 hours.

The relationship between current, discharge time and capacity is expressed by Peukert's law.

In general, the higher the ampere-hour rating, the longer the battery will last for a certain device. Installing batteries with different Ah ratings will not affect the operation of a device rated for a specific voltage.

The Ah rating of a battery is related to, but not the same as, the amount of energy it stores when fully charged. If two batteries have the same nominal voltage, then the one with the higher Ah rating stores more energy. It would also typically take longer to recharge.

The energy E available from a battery is approximately given by

* expressed in joules: E=3600CV
* expressed in watt-hours: E= CV,

where

C is the capacity in Ah, and
V is the nominal voltage.

This is only an approximation though, due to the fact that the voltage during discharge is not actually constant.


Water Bucket Analogy: Simply think of a bucket with a hole in the bottom. Think of the size of the bucket as the mAh rating of your battery, bigger the mAh, the bigger the capacity. Now think of the hole in the bottom as the Voltage of the battery. The bigger the hole (Voltage) the quicker and more powerful the drain of the bucket (mAh).

NiCd vs NiMH:

NiCd:
Pros -
Keeps Hi-Output as it drains.
Won't drain as quickly when stored.
Cheaper to produce than NiMH.

Cons -
Lower mAh (Negligible since it's different between NiMH and NiCd*)
Must be discharged before charging.
More toxic than NiMH.

NiMH:
Pros -
Higher mAh (Again, negligible*)
Doesn't need to be discharged.
Less toxic than NiCd.
Low Internal Resistance.

Cons -
As battery drains power output decreases
Drains quickly when stored.**
More expensive than NiCd.

*NiMH really weren't made to be used in hi-output applications. Since they lose output power as they drain you'll notice your upgraded replicas losing power at a constant rate until they can no longer cycle, this'll happen long before the battery is considered completely empty. An exception to this would be the newer model electric cars with NiMH batteries, but remember, they also have alternators keeping them at high capacity/power.

Battery Size: There are three sizes of battery packs available; Large, Mini, and Stick. Large batteries consist of Sub-C size cells which offer much less internal resistance than the A cells used in many Mini and Stick batteries, thus allowing for marginally better performance out of your battery. Mini and Stick batteries are used for replicas which don't offer enough space to house a larger one.

Tamiya Connector: Airsoft uses the same batteries that you'd find in model plane and RC kits, so they use the same connectors. But it's important to note that there are two sizes, both Large and Small. If your replica uses a large battery, it'll come with a large Tamiya connector, and vice versa, if your replica uses a mini or stick battery, it will come with a small Tamiya connector. (An exception would be replicas fitted with a crane stock or other custom battery housing.)

[Toastie]

Thanks :-) That info on batteries helps a lot.


I notice that on some videos I see guns with the batteries attached externally to the gun. Does this happen on every gun? Doesn't it kind of ruin the realism of the gun? I know it's not as bad as paintball, but can you get internal batteries on all guns?

[sandman]

Most guns have there batteries located internally in a various part of the gun.
Where it is placed in the gun is based on what battery the gun utilizes.
Thes are the most common places a battery would be located.
1)Forestock
2)An/Peq battery box (i.e. rail mounted box)
3)buffer tube
4)rear stock
5)foregrip
5)External/battery bag

[Toastie]

Hey, guys, all this help has been fantastic! I'm getting closer to making a purchase. I'm still debating between Pysus' gun and a used TM. I've heard many people say I should save my money and just get the TM (sorry pysus :-(.

Can I run a quick offer I have by you guys and you let me know what you think?



Sellers words:

Used Tokyo Marui M4A1
Accessories Include: Tokyo Marui 5.56mm Silencer($50), 3 hi-cap 300rd mags($90), 1 standard 30rd mag, 9.6v Ni-HM 3500mah hi drain battery, a 9.6v Ni-MH hi drain 3300mah, and universal smart charger($50), scope-mount and forgrip rail unit, external battery pack, 3 point sling, tactical vest($30), speedloader, and all the tools needed for the gun.

Up for sale here is and upgraded Tokyo Marui M4-A1 that I've been playing with for the last few years. It is used, but works like a charm.

It has been re-wired to accomedate an external battery set-up, thus letting you use a much larger battery then a stock marui would allow, giving you more battery time, and also a higher rate of fire.

This also has been upgrated with new springs (and other internal parts) to shoot just under 400fps! (So you can still take it to most fields) And also has a tight-bore-barrel in it, making it more accruate.



He tried to sell it for $350 on ebay but no one bought it. My only concern is that it has been used for a few years. Is that too old? What questions should I ask him? What is a decent price I should offer?


Thanks :-)
T.


p.s. I'm getting excited...but I want to make the right decision.

[EasyCheez]

Jinx should chime in with his thoughts on the set-up for this AEG. If this is a Tokyo Marui upgraded to fire just under 400fps I'd *really* be pushy about finding out exactly what "other internal parts" means. There are a whole bunch of things that you'd realistically need to have in that AEG to fire that hot with a decent ROF and not eating through the internals.

Also, seriously, stop posting as a guest and make a profile already!